Friday
06Nov2009
The Voluntary Open Thread
Since 2 weeks ago we had the obligatory thread, the only way to balance things out would be to make this weekend's voluntary. Feel free to comment away, or join in on any of the conversations over the other news of the day, whether it be bethe health care bill vote tomorrow, the unemployment hitting 10%, the Fort Hood shootings or the problems being caused by 400 lb jellyfish... mercy me!
Volunteer your opinions... DO IT NOW...
... and have yourselves a great weekend!
(That last part isn't optional)
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Reader Comments (69)
I rarely watch "the Ed Show" on MSNBC because I'm usually still working, but happened to catch a classic exchange today. Markos (Daily Kos) Moulitsas was on with Tom Tancredo and they were debating healthcare reform. Tancredo was regurgitating the usual big gov't is evil wingnut talking point. Kos asked him about all those evil big gov't programs like Medicare and the VA when Tancredo made the incredibly annoying claim that veterans don't like the VA and the VA sucks because big gov't can't do anything right.
I friggin hate that. Why is it that wingnuts think they can speak for all veterans? How dare you. I'm a vet and let me tell you that right wing jackasses like Tom Tancredo definitely do not speak for me. And I bet most vets would say the same thing.
But wait, I'm just getting to the good part. If you didn't already know this, Kos is a vet too. And he didn't let Tancredo get away with this crap. It was beautiful. Kos correctly pointed out that Tancredo is not qualified to speak for veterans given the fact that he is just as big of a chickenhawk as Dick Cheney. I didn't know this but Tancredo had his chance to serve in Vietnam but got a deferrment because of depression? Seriously, you can get a deferrment for depression? That's even worse than Limbaugh's pilonidal cyst on his ass that kept him out of Vietnam.
When Kos called him out, Tancredo flipped out and demanded an apology. Kos laughed and said he meant every word which made Tancredo throw a tantrum and walk off the show. Hilarious, an instant viral classic!
Obama hasn't even been in office a year and we've suffered a terrorist attack on American soil.
STFU PSM. This was an American Military Service member who broke under the strain of the job while preparing to deploy for Iraq. That would be stressful enough had he not been deploying with a bunch of racists.
The acts he committed were indeed horrendous but don't for a second forget that this man broke in service to his country. The rest of us can leave a job when the situation becomes unbearable. This man couldn't.
And certainly if you have no experience of your own of what it feels like to be deploying to a war zone, you have no business talking about this.
He's a terrorist. Your analogy is ludicrous at best.
PSM is trying to politicize this and that is fucked up.
There is no analogy contained in my above post.
Of course there is. Tell me why this guy is NOT a terrorist.
An analogy is a description of one thing in terms of another. For example: A river is a like a snake weaving across the landscape.
He terrorized and ::gasp:: he's Muslim...
I'm not saying all Muslims are terrorists...
I'm just saying most terrorists are Muslims.
Thanks, kwAwk for the waffle.
There was no waffle Gray. Terrorism means more than just scaring people or killing people. Was John Wayne Gacy a terrorist too?
This man was a murderer, not a terrorist.
Either he's a Muslim terrorist or a nut case. It was a premeditated act. He blogged about martyrism in the name of Allah, he cried out,"Allahu Akbar!" as he maliciously murdered his peers. Make up your mind.
Why must this be a left versus right issue with you folks? Right is still right and wrong is still wrong.
In my defense, I just thought I would stir things up a bit. Truth is, I usually like to get all of the facts before jumping to conclusions. Stories coming out are beginning to paint a picture that may support my statement, but I still think its a little early to know for sure.
Interesting to "watch" kwAwk come all unraveled when his side routinely makes outrageous statments like mine on their beloved Daily Kos. Hell, I don't see how my statement is any different than things said by Democratic Congressman Alan Grayson. I should be made president of his fan club! By the way, did anyone see the House reprimanding him for his statements? Oh, I forgot, he just called a woman a whore. It's not like he said, "You lie" during a presidential speech. God, what hate speech!
This man was a murder not a terrorist?? I didn't know there was a difference. I thought terrorists were murderers. Oh wait, kwAwk probably thinks they are freedom fighters.
This man was a murderer, not a terrorist.
A terrorist is a murderer... and this guy easily classifies as both.
We'll know more when we find out what his motives were...
...but I don't see how any mass murderer isn't a terrorist.
(What is it with liberals and Alan Grayson? It's like he's their new Barack Obama)
I heard about this in Europe and immediately just knew before the nationality was public that this guy was a Muslim. It's like Miss Iceland always being a blonde in a beauty contest. That said, it's a tragedy for the military. I would be willing to bet the CIA, FBI and other alphabet organizations are all over this case. It probably scares the shit out of them that there may be sleeper cells in the US military.
Didn't see the Fort Hood press conference by Obama but the NBC station in Chicago is describing it as unbelievably insensitive. I guess our buddy Barack was doing shout-outs to Indian Medal of Honor winners and didn't immediately offer his condolences when the press conference started?
Not surprising, narcissists are self-centered and cold. Obama does come off as a cold fish.
Is this the best we can do, people?
No, “terrorist” and “murderer” are not synonyms. Terrorists are nearly always murderers. Murderers may or may not be terrorists. A mass murderer is not a terrorist if his motives (thrills, sadism, revenge, fame) are not explicitly political.
Come on, folks. This isn’t hard. Seriously.
Well, whattaya know?
It’s possible this man is not as box-of-hair dumb as I’ve always thought.
Now, never let it be said I'm not open to considering that I might be wrong.
Because I once thought him to be the stupidest guy on the planet. Except for Doug Feith, of course.
Winston;
Cantor being Jewish makes him very sensitive to stupidity described in the link.
As for Cantor being "the stupidest guy on earth", on a number of occasions I've posted Cantor's educational and professional bio on this site. Since you haven't taken up my challenge to post yours for comparison other than some Onion-esk bio copied/pasted from a comedy web-site. I think it's safe to say between you and Eric Cantor we know who is the smarter of the two.
In my opinion the knee jerk labeling of this man a terrorist only leads to or is caused by an unwilliness to examine the underlieing causes of why this man snapped and did what he did.
Two questions I believe need to be examined are:
1) What are the effects on our military of a long protracted war like this whose origins and execution can legitimately be questioned by those being charged with its execution?
2) Has this long protracted war and the political rhetoric surrounding it fostered a culture of accepted racism and bigotry against Arabs and Muslims in our military which needs to be addressed?
Before you righties go apeshit about these questions, keep in mind that these are the same questions that would be asked in an corporate environment if an incident like this were to happen in a workplace.
To address the notion that terrorists and murderers are pretty much the same, keep in mind that the Irish Republican Army, a well known terrorist group routinely gave warning before its bombs went off in an attempt to avoid killing people.
Also remember the 'Eco-terrorists' you guys are always reminding us who exist are well known for conducting their operations by destroying material things, not killing people.
There seems to be an element of the right that simply just wants this to be labeled terrorism because you think it somehow vindicates Bush's policies, and harms Obama. That is a pretty selfish interpretation of these events.
Sorry, Tom, people will just have to make their own judgments.
Far as I'm concerned, guy’s short a few dots on his dice. He’s as useful as a motorcycle dashtop ashtray. Know what I mean?
That’s my take. Your mileage may vary.
As far as the Fort Hood shooter goes, there’s just no substitute for common sense concisely expressed.
As Jeff Foxworthy might say, "If you yell, "Allahu Akbar!" then try to shoot everyone in the room...you might be a terrorist."
Good call, Gray
For everyone's humor, in case you all know better than me or don't have time for Winston's 'experts' above, his post notes Lawrence O'Donnell, Chris Matthews and Ed Schultz. Yes the MSNBC idiot f*cking tri-fecta that Gob bless Winston was dumb enough to list in one post. We need a booby prize for this I swear at BL Rag. LOL. Keep it up Winston, you were this close {_} to getting the dimwit prize of the year at BL Rag if only you added Arianna Huffington to your list.
I see Representative Ryan from Wisconsin made a speech on the House floor earlier asking the House members what side of history do you want to be on? One where political a ideology that raises taxes, won't cover all Americans, costs 5.5 million jobs or a bill that fixes what’s wrong with American healthcare and leaves what works alone?
Side of history. The dems are f*cked in 2010.
Sex and drinking aside, there's nothing in this world I enjoy so thoroughly as yet another Tom Miller prognostication.
Winston was the one that said Virginny and Josey were safe for dimwit governors for 2009. LOL
Obama Gives Shout Out to 'Congressional Medal of Honor Winner' Who Isn't
Now, Tom, you know that's not true: I never said any such thing.
I don't think you're dishonest. But I often marvel at your willingness to believe so much fanciful nonsense. Some of it you apparently create yourself.
Where the FT Hood shooter is concerned, there is a pretty thin set of lines among "long-term lunatic," "he snapped," "terrorist" and "sleeper agent." As is so often the case, we're getting a deluge of information, with interview coming from his brother, USUHS classmates, et al. Along the way, we're getting the usual collection of contradictory points; one person says he was taunted and ostracized because of his faith, but another says that military sensitivity to such accusations prevented some from informing the chain of command of what now seem, in retrospect, obvious concerns. I heard Sean Hannity ask the shooter's brother, "when did he convert to Islam?", only to be told "um, we've been Muslim our entire lives." Meanwhile, CNN was busy trying to retroactively read his mind from his studies at USUHS (sheesh).
I don't buy into the "planned terrorist" or "sleeper" arguments, simply because the guy was going to great lengths in his attempts to get out of the service, to the point of hiring a civilian attorney to work the case. I'm leaning toward a combination of "he snapped" and "radicalized," given what has been described as a change in his behavior and his public comments (e.g. online postings) in recent months.
This is going to be one interesting court-martial.
It’s far too soon for any basis for conjecture as to what the hell happened here exactly, but apparently discouraging wild speculation is just hopeless, a doomed cause.
So I’ll say this: if radical Islamists have hit on some conscious strategy of passively encouraging unaffiliated free-lancers to spontaneously kill people, that’s just yet another way they resemble violent wingnuts.
Except for a tiny few violent eco-freaks (and even they target property, not human beings), this isn’t a strategy the Left would find useful, because it understands that in democratic contexts one achieves lasting social and political change only through building massive, widespread public support.
Wingnuts, like all fascists (and now—possibly—some jihadists), believe in violence itself as an organizing tool. Thus virtually all Lone Wolves have been extreme rightists or jihadists.
That wasn't directed at you personally, Wes. There just seem to be a heckuva lotta folks who won't be deterred from speculating that this was, by some definition, a terror attack rather than a psychiatric breakdown. I happen to agree with you that under certain circumstances distinguishing between these two explanations becomes kind of academic.
My point was, it's possible to pursue a conscious strategy of fostering and promoting unbalanced free-lancers to perpetrate paroxysms of violence against a perceived enemy.
But doing so only makes strategic sense within those ideologies that believe change can be accomplished through intimidation. Most on the democratic (as opposed to Stalinist) Left are very skeptical of that. The strategy would appear to them to be counterproductive.
It could be argued that all terrorist attacks are "psychiatric breakdowns."
This guy was sympathetic to radical Islam and killed a whole passel of American soldiers for the 'cause.' "Allahu Akbar!" To think otherwise and deny it was a terrorist attack is stupid, frankly.
GR, I think there's a sense in which that's true and a sense in which it's not.
But in that event do you view someone who opens shotgun fire on a church congregation because he hates liberals and gays as a terrorist, or a crazy person, or both?
It would depend on motive. Hasan's motive was to kill American soldiers and terrify in the name of Allah in an act of premeditation.
Adkisson hated blacks, liberals, and gays and thought they needed to be killed because they were ruining the country. Terrorist?
BTW it looks like we’re getting health care reform, which can only be rilly rilly rilly good news for Republicans, just ask Tom Miller’s news source.
" Owens Breaks 4 Campaign Promises in first hour in Congress."
I feel a long distinguished career for Congressman Owens. I really do. Don't you Winston?
Yep.
Hard to say, I respect his achievement in taking a district that Democrats only carried the last time they won by running against Abraham Lincoln. However, some would say it wasn't so much that Owns won so much as that the wingnuts left the field, by insisting on being too extreme for a moderate Republican district in the Northeast. What do YOU think, Tom?
I DO just love that this is going to be the Extremists' strategy: Kill all apostates! Take no prisoners!
I didn't realize you followed the Freepers. Or were one.
I see the Idiot-In-Chief and Wash Po are on the same page today in saying we should not "jump to any conclusions" about Hasan. You know those conclusions Barack can’t bring himself to label one of his Muslim brothers as a:
1). Murderer?
2). Religious Muslim fanatic?
3). Hung out with some nasty f*cks in a mosque in Virginia?
4). Was a terrorist?
One through three are true and four is almost assuredly true.
The Wash Po labels Hasan as the "alleged shooter" in today’s paper. I would say WashPo its “alleged dead” 13, “alleged Muslim terrorist” 0. F*cking pathetic.
And the libs/dimwits wonder why after nine months of Obama and four years of dem party rule Americans are done with the Unicorn chase.
We've got a pretty interesting lineup for Sunday Punk Hour in the Music Section tonight from 6-7pm est, featuring The Nipple Erectors, The Flying Lizards, The Partisans, Becky Bondage, Stiff Little Fingers, The Devotchkas, and The Avengers. If you like traditional punk rock music, pay a visit.
Not so. What I do wonder, actually, is how you sustain your incessant delusions about the President’s unpopularity. Your compound must be heavily fortified against reality intrusions.
"I do wonder, actually, is how you sustain your incessant delusions about the President’s unpopularity."
Oh' I don't know maybe in the fifty years of Gallop polling they've never had a first term president with worse approval numbers in his first year. Or maybe Americans see this guy as a narcissistic, smug, self-absorbed little prince so uncaring he feels the necessity to "give a shout out" at a press conference on the shootings at Fort Hood.
Yes, Winston in those ashrams of pity, victim hood and unicorns you live in, Barack Obama is loved. He is Winston, you're right, Barack is loved. Keep telling your self that, he is.
Apparently, Hasan attended the same mosque as some to the 9/11 hijackers and bought the gun used in the terrorist attack in August, further validating premeditation.
HuffPo
Some news reports are going around attributing Hasan's state of mind for going on a rampage to PTSD (Pre-Traumatic Distress Syndrome). WTF? If were going to invent new disorders to give cover to the PC crowd on the left for not calling what this is (another radical Muslim who attended a mosque that was so anti-American to the point that it called for the slitting the infidels throats.)
If you can be dismissed from the service for being gay, why can't Muslim's be dismissed for having radical views. People who worked with Hasan complained about his radicalism???
We all know what would happen if he (Obama) were labeled "the shooter" or "the killer." We'd hear about 'pre-trial publicity,' an 'inability to get a fair trial," and the like. Remember, we're talking about an native-born American citizen here who's going to get his trial (court-martial, actually). We're going to hear that anyway, but keeping the President off tha list of "negative pre-trial publicity" incidents is a Smart Thing. It makes perfect sense not to froth on the guy before the court-martial. (Along the same lines, it was smart to move him to Brooke AMC in San Antonio.)